"Hamilton disputes that church elders are covered by the religious privilege, because they are not trained as clergy. "
Amature voleteers appointed as local overseers within a group are exactly the sort of people for whom these kind of laws were enacted - to force them to bring abuse to the attention of the authorised bodies to deal with, not to deal with it themselves.
The consequences in this case speak from themselves.
Max
Max Divergent
JoinedPosts by Max Divergent
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13
SHOWDOWN in the New Hampshire Supreme Court today!!! (JW Abuse Suit)
by loveis init is the civil suit against the wts filed by the berry girls, as seen on "suffer the little children" in the uk and "fifth estate" in canada.
a thread has been going on this in the child abuse section .
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/8/79251/1.ashx.
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Max Divergent
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Are you an atheist? ...
by Nicolas inpersonally, i consider myself as a "soft-atheist".
i don't believe in god but i keep an open mind and if someone can come with a real proof of god's existence, i'll take it.
for now, i consider that believing in god, is just as silly as believing in santa claus.
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Max Divergent
I thought (hoped?) I was an athiest, but really I'm a highly skeptical agnostic...
But I think it's a bit context driven... in the context of the strict JW, most of us are athiests because we attempt to prove Jehovah does not exist like he's described in the WT - hence we deny the existance of God.
But if there's some sort of a god or superior spiritual entity(s)'out there somewhere' that we wouldn't try to deny becuse we're not sure that they don't exist, then as I understand it that makes one an agnostic.... I can't deny 'somthing might be out there', so I'm impure in thought & belief... :-)
Max - an apostate JW and heritic athiest :-) -
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Jehovah saves them in Russia allows them to die in Zambia
by BONEZZ innews from some lame-ass site called jehovah's witness world news......
witness escapes terrorist school bombing
dear friends:.
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Max Divergent
They're named in this article from The Sunday Times in Perth, Western Australia
http://www.sundaytimes.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,10724666%255E401,00.html
Shannon Farmer (the cousin of the dececed who didn't take the plane ride) is (was?) the Chair of the Blood Liason Cmty in Perth and a well regarded Bro.
A very sad event.
Regards, Max
Australian family dies flying over falls
By Holly Nott and Tim Clarke
10sep04
A THREE-week African holiday ended in tragedy when a joy flight over Zambia's spectacular Victoria Falls resulted in the deaths of three members of a Perth family and two of their friends.
A spokesman for the family today confirmed Shirley Watters, 58, her son Matthew Watters and his wife Justine Watters, both aged 26, all died in the light aircraft crash north of the world-famous falls yesterday.
The Watters, from Darlington in the Perth Hills, had been travelling with unnamed British friends, described as a couple aged in their 20s, who were also killed, along with the Canadian pilot.
Officials in Zambia and from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) in Australia are continuing their investigations into how the Cessna 210 crashed 33km north-east of Livingstone, on the Zambia/Zimbabwe border, killing all six people onboard.
Zambia's civil aviation director Chitalu Kabalika confirmed that shortly after take-off the pilot relayed he had an engine problem.
Less than 50 minutes later, the wreckage of the light aircraft was found in the Zimba region of Zambia, between Livingstone and Kalomo.
The two young couples had chartered the light aircraft from Zambian company Airwaves Airlink to fly some 700km from a tourist camp in South Luangwa National Park to Victoria Falls on Wednesday morning.
Shirley Watters joined the two couples on the flight, while her husband Kim, along with his cousin Shannon Farmer, and Shannon's wife Kristen - who also are from Perth - remained at the safari camp.
"After flying to Victoria Falls they stayed overnight and their return flight departed at 3.30pm (11.30pm AEST) on Thursday," the family spokesman, who declined to be named, said.
"Some 20 minutes into the flight the aircraft transmitted a mayday advising that the engine was losing oil.
"That was the last that was heard of the plane and a search and rescue helicopter discovered the wreckage shortly thereafter."
Formal identification of the bodies has not yet been completed. However, a search and rescue helicopter found the wreckage late yesterday and confirmed there were no survivors.
The family spokesman said Kim Watters and Shannon and Kristen Farmer were advised of the tragedy by representatives of the airline at 5.30pm yesterday (1.30am Friday AEST).
DFAT said consular assistance from the Australian High Commission in Harare was being provided to the remaining members of the party, who are due to return to Perth within days.
"We're saddened to learn of the death of three West Australians from the same family in a plane crash near Victoria Falls," a DFAT spokeswoman said.
Mr Kabalika said the light aircraft was registered in South Africa, to the Travel Africa company, and had been chartered by Airwaves Airlink.
Airwaves Airlink managing director Theo Goveia refused requests for an interview when contacted by AAP today, but was quoted by the Times of Zambia as saying the plane crashed because of mechanical failure.
He told the newspaper that under aviation rules and regulations, maintenance works on foreign aircraft were not permitted to be carried out locally.
Acknowledged as one of the natural wonders of the world, Victoria Falls is one of the world's most popular tourist destinations.
The falls are 1708m wide, making it the largest curtain of water in the world. It drops between 90m and 107m into the Zambezi Gorge and an average of 550,000 cubic metres of water plummets over the edge every minute. -
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Rationalism and religion
by Narkissos ini've not been too good at creating topics thus far, but for my 1000th post (in case you wouldn't notice .
we often oppose reason (ratio) and belief, as if those were mutually exclusive.
reason always works from presuppositions.
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Max Divergent
More a pseudo-rationalism maybe? Rule or formula following more than a seeking out of reason perhaps?
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Serena Williams (Dishonors) American Flag!
by Voyager infriends, i apologize if this is old information.
sometimes i can't keep up with (all) the posts here.
the thread lists this as (janurary 25, 2003) so thats why i thought it to be old.. i remember that serena williams had (won) the cup and championship, and was photographed carrying the american flag, or engaging in what (some people) considered as (idolatry),--but what was (news) to me, was the fact that she was also photographed (dishonoring) the american flag as well.
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Max Divergent
Of course Wednesday, no dispute from me - I respect any nation's flag, not just my own.
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Serena Williams (Dishonors) American Flag!
by Voyager infriends, i apologize if this is old information.
sometimes i can't keep up with (all) the posts here.
the thread lists this as (janurary 25, 2003) so thats why i thought it to be old.. i remember that serena williams had (won) the cup and championship, and was photographed carrying the american flag, or engaging in what (some people) considered as (idolatry),--but what was (news) to me, was the fact that she was also photographed (dishonoring) the american flag as well.
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Max Divergent
jwbot: "Also, why are people so quick to jump on her? she certainly means no disrespect. She did not flip off the flag and go "fuck you Australia". People are so picky sometimes."
Didn't mean to get heavy! :-) Certainly not Serena's issue... it was a good informal photo shoot, no issue from me on the photos at all.
I was just fucked off that the site we were linked to reckoned it was such a big, big, huge, massive issue that the US flag touched the ground given that they were showing pictures of the US flag being used in a way that could be read as saying 'fuck you Aust, UK and France' in a symbolic/protocol way (but noone normal would think that)... although maybe what I said didn't come over that way... :-)
No sensible person would give a rat's toss about any of it, but there's so much f'ing stupidity about on these issues (like on that site, IMO) that I felt moved to point out the obvious coz I think cretins get away with too much BS.
Cheers, Max :-) -
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Serena Williams (Dishonors) American Flag!
by Voyager infriends, i apologize if this is old information.
sometimes i can't keep up with (all) the posts here.
the thread lists this as (janurary 25, 2003) so thats why i thought it to be old.. i remember that serena williams had (won) the cup and championship, and was photographed carrying the american flag, or engaging in what (some people) considered as (idolatry),--but what was (news) to me, was the fact that she was also photographed (dishonoring) the american flag as well.
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Max Divergent
Actually, looking closer it just might be the British flag behind the US flag in those sitting pictures...
But in another picture, another rule seems to be broken: "The [Australian] flag should not be smaller than that of any other flag or ensign." The Australian flag seems to be smaller and in the lowest and most inferior position of the three foreign flags on Australian sovereign territory (the other flags being US, UK and France - the other countries to hold Grand Slam tournaments ).The annoying thing about that site is that it complains about the US flag being on the ground, but dosn't acknoledge that the US flag was given improper prominance over the host nation's flag thus causing an offence to their soverignty (as well as three other countries flags touching the ground too).
It smacks of arrogent patriotism, not a genuine concern for the sanctity of national symbols.
Fortunatly, Australian's are pretty cool and wouldn't have been too bothered... probably wouldn't have even noticed.
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Serena Williams (Dishonors) American Flag!
by Voyager infriends, i apologize if this is old information.
sometimes i can't keep up with (all) the posts here.
the thread lists this as (janurary 25, 2003) so thats why i thought it to be old.. i remember that serena williams had (won) the cup and championship, and was photographed carrying the american flag, or engaging in what (some people) considered as (idolatry),--but what was (news) to me, was the fact that she was also photographed (dishonoring) the american flag as well.
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Max Divergent
Poor girl probably didn't know - patriotic stuff like the flag not touching the ground probably wasn't big at home... Seems a bit precious to me, especially becuase...
(And was on the ground too).
"When flown in Australia or on Australia territory the Australian national flag takes precedence over all national flags."
But hey... it's an informally set photo shoot amongst various flags by the side of the river for a victorious athlete and managed to breach a few popints of protocol presumably for artistic effect... who the hell really cares? -
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When an Elder assigned to give a talk is a no show.
by Blueblades inhas it happened in your congregation?
an elder is going to be late, stuck in traffic or lost, and dosen't show up at all!.
according to the society's guidelines, ( yes!
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Max Divergent
I used to live in a remote area with only 2 elders and 1 MS who gave PT's. So we only had a talk maybe every six or ten weeks or so... it made a Sunday sort of barable...
Max -
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What are Americans taught about U.S and what do you really believe?
by sleepy injust wondering what exactly americans (u.s.a) are taught about their country in school .do you really salute a flag, do you swear allegiance to the country.
are you taught that you fought for freedom, and that america is the land of the free, etc etc?
do you actually believe what you are taught?
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Max Divergent
Badger: "...Americans have a great desire for "local control" of schools."
Dosn't the local control and funding of schools also mean each area gets the best school it can AFFORD? Meaning that children born in a poor area (umm... Flint, Michigan?) who attend a badly funded school are more likely to have a much more limited chance of 'success' (whatever that is) than a child born in a rich area with the best of everything at school?
Dosn't deliberatly giving some kids a much, much better resourced education just on the basis of where their parents live go against the ideal of America being a country of opportunity for all where anyone can be President or a millionaire? It seems more like an entreched, partly self-imposed caste system.
I'm interested.